Q+A 2020 Finale: The Year That Changed Us

HAMISH MACDONALD

From bushfires to a pandemic and a war of words with China – 2020 is the year everything changed. Welcome to Q+A.

Hey, there. Answering your questions tonight: writer and sex worker Rita Therese; former New South Wales Liberal MP Michael Yabsley; rock legend Jimmy Barnes, who’ll be performing at the end of the show tonight; former Bega mayor, now Labor federal MP, Kristy McBain; and international relations expert Lavina Lee. Please make all of them feel welcome.

Well, our first question tonight is from Nicole Willoughby Green.

NICOLE WILLOUGHBY GREEN

Hi, there. I’m a single mum of five gorgeous working kids... No, I’m a single mum of five, working full-time. I have learnt a lot this year. I now really appreciate the challenge of trying to work full-time, at home, while also trying to get three school-age kids to keep studying, and now, more than ever, respect school for what it is. How has 2020 changed you?

HAMISH MACDONALD

Jimmy Barnes?

JIMMY BARNES, ROCK LEGEND AND AUTHOR

Wow! I mean, what a big question. 2020 started out for me as, you know, just doing what I do. I was touring with Cold Chisel in January. And when this all closed down around us, I suddenly had to...for a start, I had to keep still, so... You know? I have never sat still for 50 years. So it made me sit and enjoy being. I’ve actually enjoyed the process. I mean, we went from a thriving music business in this country to most of our dear friends and people that we work with are out of work and struggling. They’re not getting help from the government because they’re all, you know, casual workers and things like that. So, it’s been a year that’s been, you know, very traumatic on a lot of levels for most people. But, I gotta say, if you ask me the thing I remember most about this year, is how much I have seen, not only Australians, but people in gen...the good side of people, trying to come together and do the right thing for each other. You know, it’s really...I think it brought out the best in a lot of people.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Sitting still – was that hard for you?

JIMMY BARNES

Sitting still was the ha... I literally... Jane and I were talking about it – we’ve been married for 40 years, and we’ve never sat still for six months, ever, you know? And I came home... I was supposed to be going on holiday, and I sat at home. Obviously, the world closed down around us, and I sat there going, “What am I going to do now?” So I wrote a book. I wrote a couple of albums. I started recording a rockabilly record, I started... I wrote a kids’ book, and I’ve started writing poetry. (LAUGHS) It’s just crazy!

HAMISH MACDONALD

Did you get confronted with stuff, though, that you didn’t think you would? I mean, is it difficult?

JIMMY BARNES

Well, I... Yeah, I think it is. I think, you know, like... I’ve written about three books over the last few years, and a lot of it was about dealing with my past. And part of the way I dealt with that past was just to keep moving, and keep running, and always stay busy. And being able to, you know... It’s one thing sitting and writing about it and saying...and you’re going through it and all that, but to sit and live with it, it became, you know, quite intense. It was a different... You know, I really had to start really processing all the stuff that I’d been talking about in public, which was difficult, you know?

I think a lot of people out there, you know, have really sort of had to come to grips with their own sort of strengths and weaknesses. And mental health issues out there, you know, it’s really... You know, it’s... I used to... I talked about it on tour. I did whole theatre shows where I’d sort of talk about... You know, yeah, it’s really good to talk about this stuff and get it out, but when you have to sit and live with it and look at it in the cold, clear light of day, it took a long time for me to relax and sort of deal with it.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Kristy, New Year’s Eve last year, I was with you at the evacuation centre in Bega. You were the mayor of a small regional council. How’s 2020 changed you?

KRISTY McBAIN, LABOR MP FOR EDEN-MONARO

Yeah. I guess New Year’s Eve changed a whole bunch of things for me. We’d experienced bushfire before, with the Tathra and district fire in 2018 and, six months later, the Yankees Gap fire, but this fire was on a whole other level. And, I guess, the weight of pressure I felt to make sure that the community was kept fully up-to-date with the ongoing fire threat, which wasn’t one fire for a short period of time – there were six out-of-control bushfires to the south, to the west and to the north of us… We lost our first home on 31 December and our last home on about 13 February. So this is a sustained, prolonged bushfire. And we... Trying very hard to advocate for people about the immediate issues, but for the medium- and long-term issues we could see coming, based on our previous experience with bushfire.

So, I guess, that weight of pressure I felt as mayor of Bega Valley has been heightened. Because as, now, the Member for Eden-Monaro, we had over a million hectares of land burnt. You know, we’ve lost over a thousand homes, thousands of kilometres of fencing, you know, lives, livelihoods, whole industries that have been, you know, really impacted, and, you know, I will continue the mission to make sure that their voices are heard, because, you know, it’s really important that we don’t forget about the summer that we’ve all just been through.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Rita, you lived through lockdown in Melbourne this year. How has this whole experience changed your life?

RITA THERESE, WRITER AND SEX WORKER

(CHUCKLES) Lockdown in Melbourne. I mean, I can only speak as just one person from Melbourne, but I can safely say that I was pretty excited to go to – as Daniel Andrews put it – get on the beers. It was like, “Let me at the beers! I want all the beers!”

Lockdown... Like, Jimmy just spoke about before, being in lockdown in Melbourne was a time of intense solitude and reflection. And that was... Like Jimmy, I have a lot of trouble sitting still. Like, Jimmy got up to lots of projects. How was the lockdown in Melbourne? I think it was hard. It was hard for me mentally, but... I was nodding so much hearing what Jimmy had to say, because I just related to it so much. It was...when you spend so long running and you’re always on the go, on the hamster wheel, and then all of a sudden it’s just silent, it’s just you and your thoughts, and you really have to sit with that. I think that was the most challenging part of the lockdown.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Your career has been about being with people, around people – there’s intimacy involved.

RITA THERESE

Yep.

HAMISH MACDONALD

When that’s sort of stopped because of a lockdown, how does that change things?

RITA THERESE

I went on Hinge!

HAMISH MACDONALD

Right. This is an app.

RITA THERESE

Yeah, it’s like a dating app, but it’s better than Tinder. So, all you ladies out there, highly recommend. I’m not getting paid, I promise. I went on Hinge and I went on some unpaid dates. And I was like, “You know what? I prefer the paid ones.”

HAMISH MACDONALD

Really?

RITA THERESE

(LAUGHS) Maybe too soon in the show for me to be cracking jokes like that! No, but seriously, I think being a sex worker during the lockdown was so challenging, because...for the most part, you have your kind of wheelhouse – I’m better in person. Online, having to transition to online sex work, and the ugliest I have ever looked, and just regrowth down to here, like a monobrow, taking sexy photos of myself, I was just like, “Can I not have to do this? Can the lockdown end, please?”

HAMISH MACDONALD

And Michael, this year you came out as gay. How did that change your life?

MICHAEL YABSLEY, FORMER NSW LIBERAL MP

Look, Hamish, obviously, you know, this has been, you know, a pretty major moment in my...in my life. It’s been a case of, you know, coming to terms with the truth, and some might say that the age of 63 is…you know, is a pretty old stage of your life to be doing that.

Look, I had...I’d paid some pretty close attention to those words that happy families are not always conventional, and conventional families are not always happy. I’d thought a lot about my own circumstances and, you know, ultimately, this was a...this was a moment of truth. And it’s a moment of truth that has been very difficult for some people. Others have been, you know, very supportive and very enthusiastic. But, look, you know, whatever the reaction has been, it’s been a moment of truth and, you know, I feel at peace with myself about that. I feel very happy – not that happiness is, you know, the only thing in the equation, but that’s the way it is.

HAMISH MACDONALD

But you made this decision to do this in a year where the world was changing for everyone. Did that, do you think, shape or change your...?

MICHAEL YABSLEY

No, no. So, my...my timing was a little different. So, this was something that happened towards the end of 2019 for me.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Yeah. Yeah.

MICHAEL YABSLEY

So, you know, that was the personal decision that I made. And then there were bushfires, and then there was COVID, and so it’s gone on.

HAMISH MACDONALD

They sort of buried the headline for you!

MICHAEL YABSLEY

(LAUGHS) Yeah! Yeah, but, certainly, you know, one very major thing after another.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Lavina Lee, the world has changed as well in a pretty dramatic fashion. How have you observed the huge sort of tidal shifts in the world around us this year?

DR LAVINA LEE, POLITICS AND INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, MACQUARIE UNI

Look, I think that maybe COVID-19 just merely made a lot of the tensions that were already existing even more obvious and deeper than they ever were before. So, if you looked at, say, for example, the US and China, and the tensions between the US and China, they really pre-existed COVID-19, but what COVID-19 did was it brought to it the surface and actually made it even more tense than it ever was before. So, you had, for example, China trying to deflect responsibility for the outbreak of COVID-19 in the first place, and then moving to this kind of aggressive wolf warrior-type diplomacy. So, whilst that kind of thing...maybe we weren’t as exposed to it, has now become more obvious to everybody.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Did the year, though, bring the world together, or did it fracture it even further, do you think?

DR LAVINA LEE

Look, I think it’s impacted different societies differently. So, I...you know, if you were going to say, “How did it impact us?” I think we’re coming out of it remarkably well. But we’ve... I feel like we’re a bit of an island. I have.... My brother lives in the United Kingdom, and when I talk to him, life is very different. And, of course, we’re living in New South Wales, and life in New South Wales has been remarkably normal for quite... Well, I wouldn’t say for a long time, but for a reasonable length of time.

So, I think, for some countries – say, Australia – I think we’ve... we’ve actually pulled together. We’re looking at our politicians. We’re willing them to succeed. We’re actually quite forgiving of them. Say, in Victoria, for example, I think the population in Victoria has been quite forgiving. But we...we want...we want to...to pull together. There are fractures – we can’t ignore that. But I think, on the whole, we’re trying to keep it together, because we want to...we want things to be as good as they can be.

HAMISH MACDONALD

OK. I want to take our next question tonight, and it comes from someone that we met in the first week of the show this year. That was back when the bushfires were still raging, and Graeme Freedman joined us as we broadcast live from the outskirts of the nation’s capital.

You lost your home in Cobargo over the summer. Before we get to your question, how are you doing? How are you coping?

GRAEME FREEDMAN

It’s pretty tough, because it’s very physical and it’s a huge amount of work to do, trying to, you know, rebuild and to...

ROBYN FREEDMAN

Still live in a caravan. (CHUCKLES)

GRAEME FREEDMAN

...get out of the ground. And we’re kind of just getting out of the ground, but only just.

HAMISH MACDONALD

You’ve held it together?

GRAEME FREEDMAN

I think... I think... Because we haven’t... COVID’s been a nonsense. We haven’t seen COVID, because we’ve just been so busy doing everything else, and we’re so isolated. So, we haven’t really experienced that with the rest of the world, but we have been desperately trying to get life sorted out. And it’s been really tough, but it’s... You know, I think we’re gradually getting there, but we’ve got a long, long way to go. Long, long.

HAMISH MACDONALD

What’s your question tonight?

GRAEME FREEDMAN

Well, unfortunately, for the third time on Q+A, this... Just to point out that the overwhelming emotion that we have, I think, on the Cobargo firegrounds for the people out there is now – and has been pretty much right through – abandonment, right? We’ve... You know, the governments...big-G governments have triaged us out as the fire approached. Then our lives are scraped up and dumped into convenient clean-up – very, very convenient, but very slow and tedious, and took a lot of time. Charities, insurance companies and that have been using us as marketing, and that is terrible, right? It’s been shocking, right? It really does hurt us. The councils and planners think that just waiving fees is sufficient to fix us up and to...to help us through.

There’s a lot more that has to be done. There’s been a lot of soft programs from government and charities and things like that, but they do more to help the providers than the punters. The punters really... The people down on the ground really haven’t seen...and the people who...like us, that have lost their homes, haven’t really gained anything much out of that. We’re really broken. Our bodies are broken. I’ve got some, you know... I’m going to have to have a number of surgeries to fix what’s happened over that time, and other people are just as bad. We’re not alone.

And we’ve yet to see the grassfires. This summer in February, we’re going to have grassfires. And we’ve got no water for RFS trucks on the fireground, right? We literally... Because there’s no roofs, there’s no water, because we can’t collect it. So, I think people... The planning isn’t being done for that, and many other things that are going to affect us. And, I guess, we’ve been politically and practically abandoned in the area, and right through the firegrounds, but I think particularly we feel it down south, because we never had any support.

And so I think the simplest form of my question is, when the F-U-C-K is big-G government going to coordinate – and I mean coordinate – truly practical H-E-L-P, right, on the ground, in the firegrounds?

HAMISH MACDONALD

Let me put that to you, Kristy.

KRISTY McBAIN

Thanks. And thanks, Graeme, and Robyn, for your question. It’s a really difficult issue, and I think it’s something that Australians and governments don’t understand, is that recovery is not a quick fix. It’s not, “Here’s a building contract and a builder – replace your home.” There is state planning systems that have to be dealt with. There’s DAs that have to be lodged. There are sometimes cultural heritage studies that have to be done. Sometimes your neighbours are state forest and national parks, and you have to deal with them to get access or to create an Asset Protection Zone.

When I talk to people right across the Eden-Monaro electorate, it is the constant theme. And I spoke to someone last week who told me they felt abandoned. And again that word comes up today. I was in the Snowy Valleys two weeks ago, and the same work keeps coming up. And whilst, yes, there has been money spent for...you know, people and business and industries, what I’m being told on the ground is it’s not effective enough and we’re not seeing a difference made. People are feeling abandoned because this bushfire season that we’ve seen was horrific. And we all suffered through an episode of it, whether it was large, like yours, or smaller like other people’s. But the conversation so quickly moved onto COVID that that feeling of abandonment has never left. And then when we have a bushfire royal commission... You know, there’s been 240 other inquiries or commissions with a whole bunch of recommendations. There was a collective eye roll when the royal commission was announced. But we had one, and the recommendations were handed down. And then, all of a sudden, we were talking about a US election. And I can understand why members of communities that I serve feel abandoned, because we’re still not talking about the major issues they’re having.

We need a complete rewrite of bushfire planning. We need to make it simple and easy for people to help themselves to get out of this situation. We actually need programs that are targeted directly at the people that have lost the most. We need to understand what the ongoing implication is for business and industry. We need proper research dollars put into understanding how this is going to impact our health long-term. None of that is being done. And I’m constantly accused of playing cheap politics over bushfires. This is the reason I do it – because your story is replicated not only in Eden-Monaro, but right across the country. So, if we’re serious about recovery, then we have to be serious about being there for the long haul.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Graeme, what conditions are you living in right now? You’re not back in a home, are you?

GRAEME FREEDMAN

No, we’re...we’re in a caravan.

HAMISH MACDONALD

And you’ve been there all year?

GRAEME FREEDMAN

We’ve been there... Well, since we could get back in, right?

HAMISH MACDONALD

Yeah.

GRAEME FREEDMAN

Because you had to get back in, because you had to secure the place. You had no fences. You had no nothing. So, you had to get back in somehow, and the caravan’s one way...

HAMISH MACDONALD

Of being there. I just want to turn back to Kristy, because $2.1 billion has been allocated under the National Bushfire Recovery fund. I mean, isn’t this exactly why you went into federal politics? To sort of help people out like this? Why can’t...? Why are they still doing that, or living in a...in a caravan?

KRISTY McBAIN

And this is part of the reason that I think we need to continue to talk about it. There is no quick, simple fix. We’ve been calling for an extension to the HomeBuilder scheme for months now because we knew people impacted by bushfire wouldn’t be able to sign a building contract by the end of the year. There is $200 million a year in a disaster mitigation recovery fund, part of a $4 billion fund. None of that has been spent in the last two years on any mitigation efforts.

You know, I hazard a guess, if you had have come down to an area like Cobargo, and made sure that the highways were cleared, so if we were impacted by bushfire again, we wouldn’t be cut off from the highway, people would have been happy. But there is so much that is still yet to be done, so there is no tooting the horn and saying, “Great. We’ve thrown out all this money. Job done.” This is going to need sustained effort for some time.

And many of communities we’re talking about, it’s not just one episode of disaster. It’s been an ongoing drought, it’s been bushfires, it’s been floods, it’s been COVID-19, it’s been border closures. So, the cumulative impact of disasters on small towns and villages, on industries where you rely on jobs in those regions, you know, we need to make sure that we’re there for the long term for those regions hit hardest.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Jimmy, it strikes me that when this all happened, as a nation, we told the communities they were going to have everything they need, we were going to throw everything at it.

JIMMY BARNES

Well, you know, as... You know, the people in this...in this country, and from all over the world, all wanted to help, and all put...put money out, and wanted to... But, unfortunately, I think, it seems to be, politically, the people who are working for us, you know, tend to try and...they patch...they do patch-up work whenever they can, when...when...you know, when they want to get votes. I mean, I remember seeing...seeing, you know, Scott Morrison trying to force his hand into that guy’s hand to shake hands, and it made me embarrassed to be Australian, that these were our leaders.

They should... You know, we have to stop thinking about how do we quickly, you know, put bandaids on problems, and start dealing with problems from the ground up. I mean, royal commissions, we’ve have had so many royal commissions that were just completely ignored. We spend a fortune on them, then ignore them. You know, we have to start looking at, you know...you know, the water...the drought problem we had with water. The bushfire... I mean, the closest a bushfire came to us was about 12km, and it was absolutely frightening. I can’t imagine what these guys have been through.

And...and, you know, just to have government sort of, like, trying...hopefully, like, “Sweep that out of the way now. Here’s another problem we’ve got. Let’s deal with this.” They have to really start working from the ground up. It’s... This is a... One thing I think about COVID and this horrible year that we’ve had, in a lot of ways, is that we should look at not...not sort of...like, how we’re going to get over it – let’s rebuild it, and build it properly. Let’s start from the ground up, you know? I’m just sick of hearing the same old problems coming back and back again.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Well, on that note, we have been so moved hearing so many of your stories this year. As tough as it’s been, you’re obviously the heart of this program, and the conversations that we have here. And this year has been pretty big for a lot of you.

BOY

In, 2020, I learnt not to take anything for granted, because your everyday life could change in an instant.

WOMAN 1

2020 – what a year! We spent Christmas, New Year and January either evacuating or fighting the fires that raged through this area.

WOMAN 2

Thanks to the fireys – they kept our area safe from the fires.

WOMAN 3

I was diagnosed with an aggressive form of breast cancer in 2020, in August, in the middle of Melbourne’s lockdown. 2020 has given me a huge dose of perspective and understanding of what’s really important.

MAN 1

Last week, my grandpa passed away from cancer in China. I was so frustrated and helpless because I couldn’t be with him for his last moment.

DONNA WARD

I learnt a lot about myself during lockdown. I learnt the challenges to one’s sanity.

MAN 2

I’ve seen, actually, an explosion of creativity.

(SINGS) # Feel the magic in the making... #

MAN 3

Working from home has been great this year. No ties, no traffic...

WOMAN 4

Shh!

MAN 3

...and no interruptions.

CAT

(PURRS, MIAOWS)

WOMAN 5

I’ve discovered Zoom, and now speak to a wider audience via my laptop.

WOMAN 6

Coming out of a 16-week lockdown here in Melbourne was THE best feeling ever! (LAUGHS)

GIRL

I was really grateful when home-learning ended ‘cause that wasn’t fun for anyone.

WOMAN 7

I have learned treasure every moment.

WOMEN

In 2020, we became the first students in our community, Yirrkala, to ever graduate with an ATAR score.

HAMISH MACDONALD

(CHUCKLES) Well, congratulations to them. Well, Donna Ward is one of the people you just met, and she’s got our next question.

DONNA WARD, FITZROY NORTH, VIC

Hi, there. Most people do lockdown in a crowded house, but there’s nothing as unique or as curious as the extended absence of another human being in your own home. I live alone, and I heard very few stories of people doing lockdown without another family member or an intimate person in their bubble. This year on Q+A, a woman raised this issue, and when she did, I wept. I wept at the recognition that someone else was doing it like me. And then I had a panic attack, and that was a surprise, because I don’t do panic attacks. I learned a lot about myself during lockdown, and I’m a better person for it, but I wonder how each of you did the dark times during COVID.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Rita?

RITA THERESE

Wow. That’s really relatable. Yeah.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Why?

RITA THERESE

Oh, um... So, I ended a long-term relationship in June, and so I did my first lockdown with my partner, so it was just pretty straightforward. And then lockdown number two was just me, my thoughts, my cat... (LAUGHS) ..my house, one bedroom, and it is...it was really challenging, and I... A lot of the messages I think we received during that time from the government was about, you know, staying together – like, you know, staying apart keeps us together. I can’t quite remember the tag line. But I think it would have been good to have said to people, “It’s actually really normal to feel like you’re going quite mad.” Like, you’re in your house all day... Especially if you have any history of trauma or mental illness or anything, I think it’s a very difficult time.

But, like Donna mentioned in her question, she’s... I believe she said that she found it a very insightful time as well, too, and I think it was and it can be, ‘cause there wasn’t any noise or stimuli. It was like, “What do I need to think about? Where do I want to go? Who do I want to be? What do I care about?” And it was weirdly refreshing, yeah.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Michael?

MICHAEL YABSLEY

Hamish, I would consider myself probably less adversely affected than probably just about anyone through the whole lockdown process. I relate to the gentleman who made the comment that, you know, lockdown was... I think he was saying it was relatively peaceful, it was uninterrupted, it was a good time for thinking.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Do you like the solitude?

MICHAEL YABSLEY

Yeah. Look, I... You know, some people who are close to me, knowing that I’d moved back to Sydney and that I was living alone... You know, there were two... One question was, “Are you lonely?” And the other question was, “Are you bored?” And I’m very content to be able to say about my own life, I can’t imagine the circumstances under which I would be either lonely or bored. But I understand...

RITA THERESE

Must be nice! (LAUGHS)

MICHAEL YABSLEY

I do. I do understand that there are lots of people who do get lonely and who do get bored, so I guess what we’re...what I’m saying is that, you know, different people are affected, of course, in different ways. But, yeah, I’ve enjoyed a certain amount of solitude. I’ve done things like cooking. I’ve reconnected with people. I’ve done a whole lot of things that I really haven’t done, probably, for decades, and that’s been, overall, a positive and enjoyable experience.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Jimmy, this was a question about what you do with the dark times.

JIMMY BARNES

Mm.

HAMISH MACDONALD

How do you make your way through them? I mean, I presume it was more than doing songs for social media with Jane.

JIMMY BARNES

Well, the funny thing was that the songs that... Jane and I... If you don’t know, Jane and I, you know, we decided earlier on... Jane decided, “We’re going to use our time,” and Jane took up playing guitar. And she’s very studious, and she worked really hard. And I took up playing the bagpipes... (LAUGHS) ...which was... It was nice for me, but bad for the neighbours...

HAMISH MACDONALD

(LAUGHS) Who were you trying to punish with that?

JIMMY BARNES

...and anybody else in the house, you know? But we decided, just so we could practise the songs, we thought we’d do a song and we’d throw it out to our friends on social media, right? And it was something... It was just... It was fun to do, and it was, you know... Music’s always been a part of our lives, but the connection that it suddenly...that sprung up...the connections that sprung up from doing that... You know, we started... You know, we’d do a song and have 1.5 million people watching it, you know? And we were just...we were flabbergasted.

And we’d look at these comments... Not that we sort of were doing it for any other reason except to just connect with people. We’d look at these comments and people were just craving connection with each other and with family. You know, we’d sing a song that, you know...you know, that I remember my mum singing, and there’d be, you know, 500 comments saying the same thing – “This is a song my mum sang.” And, you know, this brought back memories. Sitting at home by myself brought back memories.

So I think music... I use music to really sort of cope with isolation. I use music as a way of connecting with people. I use music even... You know, I’m normally singing in front of audiences, and it’s an instant gratification, but I learnt that music was... Doing it over the internet... Well, just... It was very, you know, small-time, by the way – we had an iPhone stuck on a stand somewhere. But the music... I learnt to even relate more to the music than I’ve... I think now, because of reaching out to other people over that distance, I’m a better singer, I feel like a better person, and I’ve connected with music more, so it was something that... It was...it just wasn’t what I expected. It was amazing.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Has this surprised you, that that’s how your year panned out?

JIMMY BARNES

Well, you know, it did. Like I said, I started off the year... Everything was going fine. Big tours. And obviously, the bushfires that came through, everybody... It was like the end of the world and everybody thought... You know? And, you know, this year has been the year from hell in a lot of ways, but, you know... But, at the same time, you know, I think that whole thing, while we’ve all been socially distancing and all that sort of stuff, we’ve actually become a lot closer, or at least are reaching out to be closer, which I think... If it takes a year from hell to get to this, I think that that outcome would be a good thing.

And at least if we’re all, you know, thinking about your neighbours, thinking about your loved ones, thinking about, you know, people in the street... You know, I talk to people and they just say, “Oh, you know, for a while there, you were the only connection we had to the outside world, you know?” And, you know, so... That’s what we need to do. That’s the...this is the sort of connection you need to make with people now, if we’re... You know, the world is really...is changing every day. If it’s not going to be COVID, if it’s not going to be bushfires... I think the... I hate to say it, but it doesn’t look like it’s going to get any better this year. You were talking about grassfires and whatnot this year. I think we really have to keep reaching out and helping our neighbours, helping our friends and helping each other.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Alright. Well, as always, if you or anyone you know needs support, there’s a range of support services available for you.

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The Coronavirus Mental Wellbeing Service

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HAMISH MACDONALD

The contacts for Lifeline and the coronavirus mental health support line are on your screen right now.

Well, our next question tonight comes from Joey Yung.

JOEY YUNG

Hi. (CLEARS THROAT) The government has been stressing that we, Australia, as a country, makes our own independent and robust decisions in foreign policy. But in the last few years, I’m seeing that the government’s strategy seems to be on the same footing as the United States’, such as, you know, allowing American troops to station in our country, banning Huawei from participating in any telecommunication market in the country, and failing...even failing to condemn President Donald Trump being rude to our then Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull. Not to mention that the government has been knee-jerkingly calling for an independent inquiry for COVID-19 without consulting, obviously, China. So, how do we expect China to see us as having an independent, flexible foreign policy when our actions were evidently heavily...heavily favouring the United States?

HAMISH MACDONALD

Lavina Lee?

DR LAVINA LEE

Thanks for the question. Great question. Look, I think that some of the things that you’ve mentioned, things like banning Huawei from our 5G network, calling for an independent inquiry into the origins of COVID-19 – all of those decisions... I’d add as well calling out China’s activities in the South China Sea as being against international law under the Law of the Sea Convention. All of those things are not things that America asked us to do or directed us to do, and, in fact, Australia came out ahead of other countries. So, I think... I would stress that Australia, in making these kinds of decisions, is actually making them on our own foreign policy, based on our national interest. So, I think, in a sense, I’m kind of rejecting the premise of the question.

HAMISH MACDONALD

But there is a perception in the Chinese government, it seems, that we are doing the bidding of America, that we’re this sort of lap dog that runs out and says there needs to be an independent inquiry because it might please our allies in America. Do you acknowledge that that perception at least exists?

DR LAVINA LEE

Look, sure. It’s probably a convenient way to characterise us, as a lap dog of the United States. But I would still say, when you look at the...the 14 grievances that the Chinese embassy released, those grievances are all sovereign decisions that a government can and should be able to make without any interference from another country. And I would see those 14 grievances as basically demands on Australia to outsource our foreign policy to China. And we...we’re a democratic country. I think every government should have the right to make an independent foreign policy. And I...I can’t see how any government could accept another foreign country telling us that we shouldn’t have foreign interference legislation. I don’t see that as being something that is acceptable, that any other country would actually backtrack on. So, when I look at those 14 grievances, there aren’t any one of those that I think an Australian government could legitimately backtrack on, without, at the same time, outsourcing our foreign policy to China.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Michael Yabsley, the news today has been all about the social media post of a Chinese government official – this image of an Australian soldier holding a small Afghan child on top of an Afghan flag with a knife at their throat. It’s a pretty disturbing digitally-manufactured image.

TITLE

 Lijian Zhao

@zlj517

Shocked by murder of Afghan civilians & prisoners by Australian soldiers. We strongly condemn such acts, & call for holding them accountable.

HAMISH MACDONALD

I mean, is this a low point, do you think, in the Australia-China relationship?

MICHAEL YABSLEY

Hamish, let’s call this for what it is. I mean, there is a...there’s a bully in the school, and the bully’s name is China. Now, this has been, of course, in a state of decline, not overnight, but over the last...over the last few years. I would certainly align myself with what Lavina has said. I too would, with respect, reject the premise of the question. You know, when you look at what China has done in the South China Sea, almost to reinvent the geography of that key shipping area. What China has done in relation to the various Pacific Islands – Samoa, the Solomons, it’s recently opened an embassy in Kiribati. Now, these are not...these are not...

HAMISH MACDONALD

But these...this is not necessarily evidence of bullying, is it?

MICHAEL YABSLEY

Well, I think...

HAMISH MACDONALD

Opening an embassy in Kiribati?

MICHAEL YABSLEY

No, I think it is absolutely evidence of China going all-out to flex its very significant muscles and put in place stepping stones in relation to what might just ultimately be a new world order. If I can... I’ll just make this point. I have believed for a long time that, without putting too fine a point on it, the Chinese believe that we are bits of dopes, and if you take one particular decision that was taken by Australia – to lease the Port of Darwin to China for $500 million, through a 99-year lease... We, as Australians, would not be allowed to buy a bedsit in China. But China can come here, wave $500 million around and get a 99-year lease over that incredibly important strategic...

HAMISH MACDONALD

But is that their fault, or ours?

JIMMY BARNES

(SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)

MICHAEL YABSLEY

Well, That’s what I’m saying. And I’m...you know, I’m saying, when China says we’re dopes, I think they’ve got a point, and I think we...I think...I think we have...I think we have learnt the hard way the nature of what we are dealing with, with China.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Jimmy, is it what we’re saying, or the way Australia is saying it?

JIMMY BARNES

I think...I think it has to be... You know, like, for a start, I mean, China is doing what the Americans did, what the British Empire did. Empires get strong, whoever’s financially doing that well, they...they grow and they try to, you know, take over the world. This is the nature of things. I think, to fight it, you can’t do it by being arrogant back. I think there has to be some sort of, you know... We have to talk as a group, as opposed to... You know, Australia standing up to China is not going to do anything. But if the rest of the world...and we talk, and we reason, you know, with people... I mean, it’s a very complicated... You know, Lavina knows much more about it than me, I’m sure.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Kristy, you’re nodding. Do you think we’re being aggressive or that we’re being arrogant?

KRISTY McBAIN

I think Joey’s got a point, in that the perception definitely is that Australia’s doing somebody else’s bidding. And where we...

HAMISH MACDONALD

But do you think we are?

KRISTY McBAIN

No, I don’t think we are, but that is the perception. Where we sit in the world is obviously in the middle of Asia. And we have to be cognisant of where we are. I mean, every agricultural pursuit you can think of exists in the electorate of Eden-Monaro. I’ve got vineyards who export 20% of their wine to China. That is going to have a significant impact on their business.

And now I’ve got a bunch of other agricultural pursuits wondering when they’re going to be hit next. What needs to happen is, yes, there is going to be tough discussions, but we actually have to have the discussions. You know, if we’re serious about trying to protect small business, if we’re serious about trying to protect our agricultural interests, then get on a plane, go to China and sit down and have a frank conversation. I mean, isn’t that what diplomacy is all about?

HAMISH MACDONALD

Is that realistic, Lavina, at this point?

DR LAVINA LEE

It would be a nice thing, but China is apparently not taking the calls of our Foreign Minister or Defence Minister or Prime Minister. So you’ve got to ask the question, is it our problem or is it China’s problem? Unfortunately, I don’t have a good answer for all of our small businesses and our exporters.

I mean, China’s bullying behaviour, I think, has really been exposed. I would think what happened today, that picture of the soldier, is probably... It’s an unspeakable type of act, and I think it’s a real low in our relationship, but it says more about China than it says about us. And I think what has been exposed is that any business that does export to China, the political and the sovereign risks of doing that are now completely exposed. So we honestly...

HAMISH MACDONALD

So the farmers in Kristy’s electorate just have to find different customers, is that the answer?

KRISTY McBAIN

That’s the hard part, because for so long we’ve had government say, “China’s our big trade partner. Everybody gear up.” We had AusIndustry experts talk about going out to farms, talking about how you market your product in China. And right now there is no assistance, no help. “Sorry, diversify your markets.”

So, you know, there are a bunch of businesses at the moment sitting there, piggy in the middle, wondering what’s going on. And it’s just, you know, you head back to the same discussion on bushfires. It’s the people who are actually impacted the most that are having the least say in all of this, and that is disgraceful.

MICHAEL YABSLEY

Hamish, if I may just say, I mean, the other point that just can’t be lost in this is that so much of the aggressive behaviour from China goes back to the point where Australia had the hide and audacity to call for an independent inquiry in relation to COVID. They didn’t like it, and the heat has been turned up markedly since that happened.

JIMMY BARNES

Maybe it was the way we did it. Maybe it was the way we did it. I think they certainly reacted badly to it. But I think, you know, you can’t just expect, you know, if, “We’re Australians and we say this is wrong. We’ve got to bloody stand up to it.” That might not culturally be the way to speak to the Chinese. You know, there has to be diplomacy, like you said. And I think we can sit and talk about how bad China is, but we had high commissioners in Kiribati, you know, 30 years ago. Come on! (LAUGHS)

HAMISH MACDONALD

Remember, as always, you can stream us live on iview and join the conversation on all the socials. #QandA is the hashtag. It’s the end of the year – please do keep it respectful. Our next question tonight comes from Bala Sugavanam.

BALA SUGAVANAM

Thanks, Hamish. Hi, Rita. My question is for you. It doesn’t bother me what my partner does for work, and I would never judge him or them for the work they do. But my straight mates who love to go to strip clubs for their birthdays or bucks’ night, and the straight mates that I know as a matter of fact have been with sex workers, often say that they would never date a woman who’s been in either of those professions.

While they brag about the number of girls they’ve been with, they openly say that they would never be with a woman who’s been with a number of men. And 10 is a number that gets thrown around a bit. That’s bizarre. I find it really weird as well. So my question is – is it really that hard not to be a hypocrite?

RITA THERESE

What was the last one?

HAMISH MACDONALD

Is it really that hard not to be a hypocrite?

RITA THERESE

Oh, well, that’s a really great opinion you have! I wasn’t sure where we were going to go with that. I was kind of steeling myself. I was like, “Is it hard to be an unlovable shrew?” (LAUGHS)  I think it’s really cool that you have that opinion, and I think it’s really amazing that you say that. You know, it is hypocritical. And, I mean, I have… My undergraduate is in philosophy, so I’m not going to wank myself too hard off right now about the Madonna-whore complex and all that kind of stuff.

But, look, they say that – some men say that. Look, this job’s not for them. It’s not. It challenges ideas about monogamy, it challenges ideas about love. Can you love more than one person? Is sleeping with someone the same thing as loving them? I don’t think so. If someone doesn’t like what I do, or they’re not interested in dating me, that’s perfectly fine.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Does it come up? Do people say, “Look, I can’t deal with what you do for work?”

RITA THERESE

It does. I just tell people on my first date that I actually work as an IT cloud server. (LAUGHS) “I do databases for universities.” And their eyes just glaze over. And then, at some point, they’re like, “Is this you on the photo with the titties?” I’m like, “Oh, my God!” And, look, some people say, “No, it’s not for me. I’m not comfortable sharing. I have a different idea about love. I have a different idea about monogamy.” That’s perfectly fine.

HAMISH MACDONALD

And do you think there are different standards – I think this is what Bala was talking about – for men and for women? You know, it’s acceptable for straight men to bed, you know, countless women. For women to do that with men seems somehow less acceptable.

RITA THERESE

Well, who would want to... I don’t know. Like, I’m not going to lie – men are not always the greatest in bed. So I couldn’t imagine why you’d particularly want to go out and bed hundreds of them. You might get, like, one out of a thousand’s a real home run, and the rest...

KRISTY McBAIN

(LAUGHS)

RITA THERESE

But do I think it’s hypocritical? I mean, I’ve been doing this job for so long – it’s been 10 years. I’m an old lady, and I’m surrounded by people who don’t feel or think that way. And when I am confronted with it, I just kind of, like, “Not my circus, not my monkey. See ya.”

HAMISH MACDONALD

10 years? Is there a shelf life in the work that you do?

RITA THERESE

I don’t know, Hamish. How am I looking under these bright lights? (LAUGHS)

HAMISH MACDONALD

You look amazing.

RITA THERESE

I don’t think there is at all. I know women who are 18 who are working, I know women who are 50, and they look so good. Like, sexy, like, Monica Bellucci vibes. So I don’t think you need to... There’s no shelf life. It’s when you’re over it, when you’re done, and you’re like, “See you later.”

HAMISH MACDONALD

Michael, this was a question about hypocrisy. Do you think that men can be hypocrites with some of this stuff?

MICHAEL YABSLEY

Oh, look, I’m sure men can be hypocrites, women can be hypocrites. You know, it can... Hypocrisy is not confined to gender or age or any other particular characteristic. So surely the answer is yes. I mean, hypocrisy can cut through all those boundaries.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Are men worse with the hypocrisy, Jimmy, do you think?

JIMMY BARNES

Well, I’d probably say so, yeah. But, I mean, I think, you know, the whole... Sex has changed so much and is changing and evolving so rapidly now, you know.

HAMISH MACDONALD

How so?

JIMMY BARNES

You know, I mean, you know, most kids you meet nowadays are sort of non-binary. You know, they’re like...

RITA THERESE

Are they? (CHUCKLES)

JIMMY BARNES

And that’s just, you know... I mean... No, they sort of... It’s not... It’s not the same as it was. You’re not straight or gay or, you know, or whatever. There’s so many various, you know, degrees of your sexuality. And people are just starting to learn about sex, and I think it’s just changing every day. And I think that, probably…men have probably… Like most things, men trying to be in control, you know. It’s about men’s control issues.

And, you know, those issues that men have have come from, you know, the way they were brought up as well. And like I said before, this is like the royal commissions – we have to change from the ground up, we can’t start just saying, “Everybody, you know, this all changes right now.” We have to start changing and teaching our children about that hypocrisy, about that, you know, we’re all free to do what we like.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Do you agree?

RITA THERESE

I mean, yeah, I do. But I was like, go to a royal commission, and then we’re back here at hypocrisy...

JIMMY BARNES

(LAUGHS) Sorry about that!

RITA THERESE

Piecing all the puzzle pieces together!

JIMMY BARNES

Yeah, sorry about that.

RITA THERESE

No, no, it was interesting. I think if you... I don’t know. I don’t have a particularly moralistic standpoint towards sex work, I really don’t. I just think you’re exchanging money for a service. It’s no different to going to a... I mean, it is different to going to a hairdresser, let’s not lie! (CHUCKLES) Very different. But, no, I mean, I’ve seen the change.

Like, to go back about talking about being hypocritical, I actually am going to answer your question, then go off on a wild tangent. I have seen a difference in people’s attitudes on online dating. That’s been a really big thing that, when I first came out as a worker, when I was 18 on Instagram, there were, like, maybe a small handful community, and now it’s a really thriving online world.

And I think people are becoming more accepting and more understanding, and I think that’s really cool. But, yeah, do I think men are hypocritical for going to a strip club? No, because men will always want to have, like, their Madonna and their whore. That’s how men are, and I don’t try and fight that. I don’t know.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Alright. Let’s take our next question. It’s from Dianne Santos.

DIANNE SANTOS

Hi. This year has enabled many changes in my life, one being that I can watch Q+A, as previously I would be fast asleep by the time the show started! My cafe closed this year because of COVID, and I also believe the lack of people back in offices has had a major impact in the city business districts. Even though a vaccine is imminent, does the panel believe businesses will be back or close to pre-COVID by the next financial year? Or how long will it take to reach a new normal?

HAMISH MACDONALD

OK, so, we’d need a vaccine for that. Would you take one, Michael, straightaway?

MICHAEL YABSLEY

Yeah, I’d take one straightaway, once the efficacy of the vaccine has been established. But for reasons that are both symbolic and substantive, I don’t think the vaccine should be free. I mean, I actually think it is time to... You know, Australia now needs to be... Assuming that COVID is behind us, and we hope that’s the case, although none of us, of course, none of us can be certain about that. I think Australia needs to be weaned off the COVID largesse, which has basically propped the economy up.

HAMISH MACDONALD

So, why would you make that decision to do that on, of all things, the vaccine?

MICHAEL YABSLEY

Because I think that’s where the symbolic message will be, you know, the most...

RITA THERESE

What’s the symbolic message? Punish people who are poor?

MICHAEL YABSLEY

No, no. No, I’m not saying that at all. Look, you know, obviously, there...you know, there are different forms of both public and private health insurance.

RITA THERESE

But that’s...

MICHAEL YABSLEY

I mean, those measures...

RITA THERESE

Michael, that’s why we have Medicare. That’s why we have Medicare, don’t we?

MICHAEL YABSLEY

And there are people who will be able to benefit through Medicare.

RITA THERESE

But didn’t you just say, just then, “I don’t think this vaccine should be free?” Or subsidised?

MICHAEL YABSLEY

It’s actually not... No. I didn’t say... I didn’t actually say it shouldn’t be subsidised. I said it shouldn’t be free. But, I mean, if people are...

RITA THERESE

Michael, explain to me clearly – why should a vaccine not be free?

MICHAEL YABSLEY

Because I’m saying that in relation to...

RITA THERESE

Because we’ve already had JobKeeper?

MICHAEL YABSLEY

And a raft of other measures. We as a country need to get the economy back in order.

RITA THERESE

But how can you get an economy back in order if you’ve got people who can’t afford a vaccine unable to get one? So you’re alienating people who are on lower income...

MICHAEL YABSLEY

I think you would find, under those circumstances, public health insurance would cut in. But that doesn’t mean it’s free – someone is paying for it.

KRISTY McBAIN

We provide free vaccines to children for childhood diseases. We provide free vaccines from four months till five years to make sure that kids are completely vaccinated.

MICHAEL YABSLEY

And I understand that. I’m saying I think it’s time to put a raft of measures in place. Otherwise, Australia will continue to haemorrhage through massive public expenditure, and we will find that the economic cost for the health benefits that have been gained will be out of control and we will be repaying the debt for the next generation.

KRISTY McBAIN

Look, my kids are going to be paying off a debt, my grandkids will probably be paying off a debt. But I thought it would make good economic sense to provide a free vaccine so that people can actually get back to work so we’re not dealing with this stop-start economy.

RITA THERESE

100%. Like, am I hearing this?! (CHUCKLES)

MICHAEL YABSLEY

No, no. We can...

RITA THERESE

“No vaccine! You’ve got to be able to pay for it!”

MICHAEL YABSLEY

We can agree to disagree on that.

RITA THERESE

Absolutely.

MICHAEL YABSLEY

I actually think it is important that we should, whilst we celebrate Australia’s incredible achievements in terms of stopping the spread of the infection, the truth is there is a flip side to that, and we shouldn’t pretend it’s not there. The flip side is, you know, the damage to mental health, the extent to which divorce is occurring in the wake of COVID.

RITA THERESE

What’s divorce got to do with a vaccine?

MICHAEL YABSLEY

I’m just...

RITA THERESE

Sorry, I’m just following the train of thought.

MICHAEL YABSLEY

No, no. I am saying that there are consequences...

RITA THERESE

Divorce is a consequence of the vaccine?

MICHAEL YABSLEY

No, I’m not... No.

RITA THERESE

I’m lost.

MICHAEL YABSLEY

You need to listen carefully. I’m saying that there are consequences, there are economic and social consequences...

RITA THERESE

Of course there’s consequences, but...

MICHAEL YABSLEY

In relation to stopping the spread of the disease.

RITA THERESE

100%. But a vaccine – if people would like to take it – I’m not suggesting everyone has to take it if they don’t want to, but I think the vaccine is important.

MICHAEL YABSLEY

I actually think they should.

RITA THERESE

Well, they should.

MICHAEL YABSLEY

So you and I can disagree on that as well.

RITA THERESE

Well, I’m just saying people should be allowed to have consent. I’m not an anti-vaxxer, by the way, just clearing that one right up. No, I just think that a free vaccine is the way to get people back. ‘Cause people are afraid to go back to work. Like, you see it when someone... Like, if you’re in the supermarket and you’ve got that tickle in the back of your throat like, “Oh, my God, I’m going to cough, I’m going to cough,” and then you cough accidentally and then someone looks shocked and horrified.

Like, people don’t want... People don’t want to get sick. Why couldn’t we give them a free vaccine? I think it would be wonderful. I hope the government does. Fingers crossed.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Alright, let’s take our next question. It’s a video from Robyn Cavagan in Aspendale, Victoria.

ROBYN CAVAGAN

If you could frame 2020 into a series of pictures from children in rowboats escaping the fires in Mallacoota, the wet markets of Wuhan, the freezer truck body bags of New York’s COVID crisis, to an unmasked Trump boarding Air Force One while possibly still infectious with COVID, what would your personal snapshot be and why?

HAMISH MACDONALD

Kristy, an image that means 2020 for you.

KRISTY McBAIN

The first image that comes to my mind is an image of the Bermagui Country Club. And there was about 2,000 people in the room on New Year’s Day. Or 2 January, I think it was, actually. And I was trying to give people as much information as possible, ‘cause the Badger Fire was coming back and was headed towards the township of Bermagui. Immediately after that photo was taken, I headed to the Cobargo Showground and spoke with people who had lost everything.

So, for me, that sums up the year. What the most important thing about it was, and that was looking after communities, and we have to continue to do that because bushfire-affected communities are still bushfire-affected.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Lavina Lee, one image.

DR LAVINA LEE

I think I was most shocked when we had the lockdown in New South Wales and to see the picture of queues of people outside Centrelink, just hundreds of people lining the streets, waiting for their chance at Centrelink. I think that just reminded me or made me think, one, what’s going on? You know, is this the Depression? You know, what’s going to happen to the economy? Along the lines of what Michael was talking about now, is how are we going to get out of this? And I think we’re kind of part of the way back. I think we could have spoken just a moment ago about borders within our country and the importance of opening up the domestic economy so that we can at least have some semblance of economic activity until we get the vaccine at the end of next year.

And I would hope that more of us pressure our premiers, the recalcitrant ones, to be less panicky about borders and to really act on the science. If New South Wales can do it, I think other states can do it too.

KRISTY McBAIN

But New South Wales also closed the border.

DR LAVINA LEE

I think we closed the border, but you could say definitely that New South Wales is much more confident about its testing, tracking and tracing system. And the way that South Australia dealt with that outbreak only, I think a week ago, to me, showed that they were not confident in their systems.

HAMISH MACDONALD

OK.

DR LAVINA LEE

And it made me think, what have they actually been doing all these months?

HAMISH MACDONALD

One image, Michael Yabsley.

MICHAEL YABSLEY

Donald Trump claiming in a 2:00am press conference that he was a victim of electoral fraud in the wake of what was obviously a free and fair election. And the way in which that crystallised in my mind, that the best that the greatest democracy on earth could do by way of a presidential campaign was a contest between Donald Trump and Joe Biden.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Alright. Rita Therese, one image.

RITA THERESE

I don’t have a particular image, but there was a meme that was just shared around, I remember on everyone’s stories when they announced the lockdown in Victoria, the hard one. And it was just, like, a dog sitting in a house that was on fire, drinking a coffee, and the caption was like, “This is fine. This is so fine.”

HAMISH MACDONALD

OK. Jimmy Barnes, one image.

JIMMY BARNES

I have had the image of dead native animals from the bushfires from the start of the year, and it sort of haunts me. You know, the fact that there was, you know, 3 billion animals killed. And I look at the year, and we think about COVID and things, how bad things are, and, you know, we’re really not taking steps to make things any better for them. I still hear, you know, New South Wales government’s fighting about cutting down trees for koala bears when they’ve just been through what they have been through. So, you know, I can’t get that image out of my head.

HAMISH MACDONALD

OK. Well, that is all we have got time for tonight. Would you please thank our panel: Rita Therese, Michael Yabsley, Jimmy Barnes – time for you to get set up – Kristy McBain, and also to Lavina Lee. Would you please put your hands together for all of them.

And thanks to those of you here and also at home for sharing your questions tonight and, in fact, throughout the year. We’ve had to do things really differently this year here at Q+A. So, on behalf of the team here, we’d like to say a huge thankyou.

This is, in fact, our final Q+A on a Monday night. Next year, you won’t have to stay up so late, we are moving to prime time in our 14th year. We’re really excited about it. We will be on every Thursday night at 8:30pm, and we’re looking forward to seeing you then.

Well, we’re leaving you tonight with a performance from Jimmy Barnes and his beautiful wife, Jane, accompanied by pianist Clayton Doley. This, to end our 2020, is Silent Night.

JIMMY BARNES

# Silent Night

# Holy night

# All is calm

# All is bright

# Round yon virgin Mother and Child

# Holy infant so tender and mild

# Sleep in heavenly peace

# Sleep in heavenly peace

# Silent Night

# Holy night

# Shepherds quake at the sight

# Glories stream from heaven afar

# And heavenly hosts sing, “Hallelujah!”

# Christ the Saviour is born

# Christ the Saviour is born

# Silent Night

# Holy night

# Son of God

# Oh, love’s pure light

# Radiant beams from thy Holy face

# With the dawn of redeeming grace

# Jesus, Lord at Thy birth

# Jesus, Lord at Thy birth. #